Best Actor

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Re: Best Actor

Postby flipp525 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:57 pm

Also, there's this:

Why Michael Keaton Lost: The Academy Doesn’t Love Comeback Stories

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/201 ... src=fol_tw
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Re: Best Actor

Postby flipp525 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:57 pm

FilmFan720 wrote:Very true. I was focusing on recent times, but that is certainly in the same category as Keaton and Rourke.

Conversely, they did honor the comeback narrative when they gave Ingrid Bergman her second (and some might argue even) her third trophies. But, in general, I think you're right about the over-reliance on a "trend" that really doesn't have much applicable precedent.
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Re: Best Actor

Postby FilmFan720 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:59 am

Very true. I was focusing on recent times, but that is certainly in the same category as Keaton and Rourke.
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Re: Best Actor

Postby flipp525 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:55 am

FilmFan720 wrote:After Michael Keaton and Mickey Rourke (and even Bill Murray or Gloria Stuart or even Lauren Bacall), can we finally retire this idea that the Academy wants to honor the comeback.

Add Judy Garland for A Star is Born, the ultimate comeback denied.
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Re: Best Actor

Postby Big Magilla » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:36 am

FilmFan720 wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:What this was, in my opinion, was an allegiance by Academy members to their unions, or guilds. The PGA declared Birdman the best so they voted for that for Best Picture. The DGA said Inarritu was best, so they voted for him for Best Director. SAG said Redmayne was better than Keaton so they voted for him. Maybe it's time to go back to the Academy's mid-1930s deal with the guilds that their membership vote for the wins. In so doing, they would have to give up their own awards, which they are unlikely to do, but if they did would pump a little more suspense back into the awards.


No, it doesn't happen that way. People don't vote for something because the PGA voted for them...instead, the guilds reflect the voting body of the Academy. This isn't a causal relationship, but it is a relationship tied together by common mindset.

Maybe so, but it still doesn't negate the fact that more and more frequently, as the guilds go, so go the Oscars. It's at the point now that unless a nominee was ineligible for guild consideration the guild winners, not the critics' picks, will rule the night. A robot could predict the winners simply by knowing who the guilds voted for.

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Re: Best Actor

Postby FilmFan720 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:34 am

ITALIANO wrote:
FilmFan720 wrote:There is a clear difference between honoring a comeback, and honoring a respected veteran.


I agree with you, of course. Except that - at least from an European point of view - Patricia Arquette DID disappear for a period of time, and she was never a very respected actress even when she was popular in movies. As for J.K. Simmons, he was probably respected, and famous, in America (for his tv work maybe), but certainly not here.

As I saw often, the four acting categories - yes, even Best Actor - became predictable quite early. I didn't like it, but that's the way it was, and even more so than usual. I consider Eddie Redmayne's win on the same level as Cliff Robertson's for Charly, but I knew it would happen.


Maybe not respected veteran, but while both were common on TV (and Arquette won prizes for it), their narrative wasn't dictated as a "comeback." Not once did I hear that Arquette was "back" or that she would "finally" get her recognition. So maybe what I am talking about is merely how the nominee's narrative is constructed!
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Re: Best Actor

Postby ITALIANO » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:28 am

FilmFan720 wrote:There is a clear difference between honoring a comeback, and honoring a respected veteran.


I agree with you, of course. Except that - at least from an European point of view - Patricia Arquette DID disappear for a period of time, and she was never a very respected actress even when she was popular in movies. As for J.K. Simmons, he was probably respected, and famous, in America (for his tv work maybe), but certainly not here.

As I said often, the four acting categories - yes, even Best Actor - became predictable quite early. I didn't like it, but that's the way it was, and even more so than usual. I consider Eddie Redmayne's win on the same level as Cliff Robertson's for Charly, but I knew it would happen.
Last edited by ITALIANO on Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Best Actor

Postby FilmFan720 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:08 am

Big Magilla wrote:What this was, in my opinion, was an allegiance by Academy members to their unions, or guilds. The PGA declared Birdman the best so they voted for that for Best Picture. The DGA said Inarritu was best, so they voted for him for Best Director. SAG said Redmayne was better than Keaton so they voted for him. Maybe it's time to go back to the Academy's mid-1930s deal with the guilds that their membership vote for the wins. In so doing, they would have to give up their own awards, which they are unlikely to do, but if they did would pump a little more suspense back into the awards.


No, it doesn't happen that way. People don't vote for something because the PGA voted for them...instead, the guilds reflect the voting body of the Academy. This isn't a causal relationship, but it is a relationship tied together by common mindset.
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Re: Best Actor

Postby FilmFan720 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:07 am

There is a clear difference between honoring a comeback, and honoring a respected veteran. People like Julianne Moore and Jeff Bridges (even J.K. Simmons or Patricia Arquette) never disappeared from view or fell out of favor. They were always hard-working actors who made lots of movies and garnered a lot of respect. In the case of Moore and Bridges (or even a Bullock or McConaughey, even if they didn't have all the previous nominations), it was just a sense that they have finally found the role to get them the prize. It is a life-achievement award.

What I am talking about are cases like Mickey Rourke or Michael Keaton, where an actor was once very popular (although never in a way that got them awards recognition) and then fell completely out of sight. They were left making low-grade movies and were considered "has-beens." Then, they come splashing back with a very well-regarded performance and everyone jumps up and says "They will win the Oscars...people love them and missed them so much!" And it never happens. You could say that Bill Murray falls into this same category. In every case, they lose and people seem shocked. But why? There is no modern precedence for them winning. It is just an interesting phenomenon, that perhaps the Academy is not interested in honoring these resurrected careers (or that the comeback is one narrative they don't subscribe to).
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Re: Best Actor

Postby Big Magilla » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:37 am

mlrg wrote:
Big Magilla wrote:Bill Murray was up against Jamie Foxx playing a beloved real-life figure with a disability.


He lost to Penn not Foxx and Penn was seen as due at the time

:oops:

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Re: Best Actor

Postby mlrg » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:13 am

Big Magilla wrote:Bill Murray was up against Jamie Foxx playing a beloved real-life figure with a disability.


He lost to Penn not Foxx and Penn was seen as due at the time

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Re: Best Actor

Postby Big Magilla » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:41 am

Depends on the actor, the film and the competition.

Most people in 1998 had no idea who Gloria Stuart was aside from her old lady in Titanic. It wasn't that she had been a major star anyway. Lauren Bacall had been a major star, but was not known for any particularly great performance. She was also nominated for what was a pretty lousy movie. Bill Murray was up against Jamie Foxx playing a beloved real-life figure with a disability. Mickey Rourke was up against Sean Penn playing a larger than life real-life figure who was assassinated. Jeff Bridges and Sandra Bullock are examples of stars whose late career gambles paid off with recent Oscar wins. The same might be said of Julianne Moore, J.K. Simmons and Patricia Arquette this year. A win for Keaton would have been a four-veteran pay-out.

What this was, in my opinion, was an allegiance by Academy members to their unions, or guilds. The PGA declared Birdman the best so they voted for that for Best Picture. The DGA said Inarritu was best, so they voted for him for Best Director. SAG said Redmayne was better than Keaton so they voted for him. Maybe it's time to go back to the Academy's mid-1930s deal with the guilds that their membership vote for the wins. In so doing, they would have to give up their own awards, which they are unlikely to do, but if they did would pump a little more suspense back into the awards.

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Re: Best Actor

Postby anonymous1980 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:34 am

rolotomasi99 wrote:Odd that they clearly loved BIRDMAN, but not Keaton's performance.


Yes. This has been a real head scratcher for me all season. Birdman is practically the Michael Keaton show. If you love the film, shouldn't you love the performance? Oddly enough, this is the one Birdman nomination I was rooting for.

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Re: Best Actor

Postby FilmFan720 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:13 am

After Michael Keaton and Mickey Rourke (and even Bill Murray or Gloria Stuart or even Lauren Bacall), can we finally retire this idea that the Academy wants to honor the comeback. I really don't think this was the close race everyone made it out to be; Keaton won no real major precursor and Redmayne was in the lead the whole time. People (mostly the Internet crowd) want to play up this "they have always loved this person and now that they are back they will award them" mentality, but it hasn't succeeded in years! The winners in the past decade and a half have focused on rewarding consistent veterans and hot new stars. Next time time body comes back from career death, I'm not putting much weight on their Oscar campaign.
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Re: Best Actor

Postby Okri » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:06 am

Yeah, I don't get the hate that I've read, but I loved his performance and his sheer joy onstage was terrific.


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