Best Picture

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Re: Best Picture

Postby mlrg » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:14 pm

Mister Tee wrote:Metacritic is for one thing far more subjective that its precise numerology would suggest -- what makes a review rate a 100 rather than a 95 or a 90 is very fluid. And comparing year-over-year isn't necessarily meaningful, because alot of critics have been added to their compendium of late, some of them not really critics by our traditional definition, but more like bloggers -- bloggers with often effusive tastes. 12 Years does have their highest rating, but Gravity is a mere point behind...which, given the inexactitiude of their methodology, is margin of error. Plus, her scored a 92, and both American Hustle and inside Llewyn Davis were at 90 last I looked. This suggests either this was the most phenomenally great movie year in decades, or the influx of new, more enthusiastic participants has created significant grade inflation.


Very good point!

And OscarGuy needs to chill (hope he's not offended by this post...)

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Re: Best Picture

Postby Mister Tee » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:45 pm

OscarGuy wrote:How would YOU arbiter what is considered a universally "great" film, Tee? Because there are giong to be flaws with EVERY aggregator out there. To push one aside over another just because you don't personally like their methodlogy is rather annoying. Would you rather we use Rotten Tomatoes which has an even more dubious collection? Or maybe IMDB? You decide, because apparently I'm not qualified to make such judgements in your estimation.

Whoa -- step out of the pulpit, preacher.

All I said was, comparing scores year-over-year is a very inexact science, because the contributors' list has changed significantly just recently and has led to higher numbers over all. It's like comparing movie-grosses without adjusting for inflation. Why you'd interpret that as some personal attack is beyond me.

The answer to "How would YOU arbiter what is considered a universally "great" film?" is I WOULDN'T.

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Re: Best Picture

Postby OscarGuy » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:32 pm

How would YOU arbiter what is considered a universally "great" film, Tee? Because there are giong to be flaws with EVERY aggregator out there. To push one aside over another just because you don't personally like their methodlogy is rather annoying. Would you rather we use Rotten Tomatoes which has an even more dubious collection? Or maybe IMDB? You decide, because apparently I'm not qualified to make such judgements in your estimation.
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Re: Best Picture

Postby rolotomasi99 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:36 pm

Mister Tee wrote:Metacritic is for one thing far more subjective that its precise numerology would suggest -- what makes a review rate a 100 rather than a 95 or a 90 is very fluid. And comparing year-over-year isn't necessarily meaningful, because alot of critics have been added to their compendium of late, some of them not really critics by our traditional definition, but more like bloggers -- bloggers with often effusive tastes. 12 Years does have their highest rating, but Gravity is a mere point behind...which, given the inexactitiude of their methodology, is margin of error. Plus, her scored a 92, and both American Hustle and inside Llewyn Davis were at 90 last I looked. This suggests either this was the most phenomenally great movie year in decades, or the influx of new, more enthusiastic participants has created significant grade inflation.


Excellent point!
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Re: Best Picture

Postby Mister Tee » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:14 pm

Metacritic is for one thing far more subjective that its precise numerology would suggest -- what makes a review rate a 100 rather than a 95 or a 90 is very fluid. And comparing year-over-year isn't necessarily meaningful, because alot of critics have been added to their compendium of late, some of them not really critics by our traditional definition, but more like bloggers -- bloggers with often effusive tastes. 12 Years does have their highest rating, but Gravity is a mere point behind...which, given the inexactitiude of their methodology, is margin of error. Plus, her scored a 92, and both American Hustle and inside Llewyn Davis were at 90 last I looked. This suggests either this was the most phenomenally great movie year in decades, or the influx of new, more enthusiastic participants has created significant grade inflation.

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Re: Best Picture

Postby rolotomasi99 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:51 pm

OscarGuy wrote:When did The Departed become a "great" film? It has the same average score from MetaCritic (86) as Argo. It's also the same as Slumdog. Matter of fact, both The King's Speech (88) and The Artist (89) have higher average ratings than those films. No Country for Old Men (91) is above all of those, but both Lord of the Rings: Return of the King (94) and The Hurt Locker (94) (which I disagree completely with) scored higher. 12 Years a Slave currently tops all of those (97). Here are the ratings of the last few winners (I only went back as far as there was a large number of critics whose ratings were compiled. I'm not assigning any sigifnicance to this, but to suggest that we're letting personal opinions of quality determine what the last great winner was. According to these numbers, no Best Picture winner in recent history has been as critically acclaimed as 12 Years a Slave. We would all dispute that, but let's also realize that some films people aren't as we always suspected they were.

2013 - 12 Years a Slave (97)
2012 - Argo (86)
2011 - The Artist (89)
2010 - The King's Speech (88)
2009 - The Hurt Locker (94)
2008 - Slumdog Millionaire (86)
2007 - No Country for Old Men (91)
2006 - The Departed (86)
2005 - Crash (69)
2004 - Million Dollar Baby (84)
2003 - The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (94)
2002 - Chicago (82)
2001 - A Beautiful Mind (72)
2000 - Gladiator (64)
1999 - American Beauty (86)
1998 - Shakespeare in Love (87)
1997 - Titanic (74)
1996 - The English Patient (87)


This is why these types of aggregate sites are stupid. I am not sure about Metacritic, but I know RottenTomatoes' numbers fluctuate. For example, when ZERO DARK THIRTY was winning a bunch of precursors, it had a score of 97 (I specifically checked). Then the lies about torture hit, and now it is down to 93. It is 95 at Metacritic. The number for 12 YEARS A SLAVE is 97 now, but that could fall.

Also, I was only saying THE DEPARTED was different than the type of films the Academy usually picks. I do not think it is a great film the way THE GODFATHER is great, but more along the lines of THE FRENCH CONNECTION.
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Re: Best Picture

Postby OscarGuy » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:40 pm

When did The Departed become a "great" film? It has the same average score from MetaCritic (86) as Argo. It's also the same as Slumdog. Matter of fact, both The King's Speech (88) and The Artist (89) have higher average ratings than those films. No Country for Old Men (91) is above all of those, but both Lord of the Rings: Return of the King (94) and The Hurt Locker (94) (which I disagree completely with) scored higher. 12 Years a Slave currently tops all of those (97). Here are the ratings of the last few winners (I only went back as far as there was a large number of critics whose ratings were compiled. I'm not assigning any sigifnicance to this, but to suggest that we're letting personal opinions of quality determine what the last great winner was. According to these numbers, no Best Picture winner in recent history has been as critically acclaimed as 12 Years a Slave. We would all dispute that, but let's also realize that some films people aren't as we always suspected they were.

2013 - 12 Years a Slave (97)
2012 - Argo (86)
2011 - The Artist (89)
2010 - The King's Speech (88)
2009 - The Hurt Locker (94)
2008 - Slumdog Millionaire (86)
2007 - No Country for Old Men (91)
2006 - The Departed (86)
2005 - Crash (69)
2004 - Million Dollar Baby (84)
2003 - The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (94)
2002 - Chicago (82)
2001 - A Beautiful Mind (72)
2000 - Gladiator (64)
1999 - American Beauty (86)
1998 - Shakespeare in Love (87)
1997 - Titanic (74)
1996 - The English Patient (87)
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Re: Best Picture

Postby anonymous1980 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:11 pm

Eenusch wrote:I thought the rules were changed a few years back limiting the number of producers eligible per picture to three.

It looked like more than three 12 Years people were given Oscars for Best Picture.


They were. HOWEVER, if there are more than 3 credited producers, the production company/studio can argue to justify nominations for more than 3 producers.

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Re: Best Picture

Postby rolotomasi99 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:50 am

Since the turn of this most recent century, Oscar has made some pretty middling choices for Best Picture. There have certainly been some bright spots like THE DEPARTED, NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN, and of course THE HURT LOCKER, but for the most part the Academy has gone with films that were contented with just being good. After hitting a high point of quality with THE HURT LOCKER we had to suffer through some pretty milquetoast winners. THE KING'S SPEECH was sappy, THE ARTIST was goofy, and ARGO was close to being great but ultimately settled for being just good enough. I was very happy to see at least four great Best Picture nominees this year (12 YEARS A SLAVE, GRAVITY, THE WOLF OF WALL STREET, and HER), and would have been fine if any of these had won.

AMERICAN HUSTLE seemed like the obvious choice for the Academy since it fit perfectly with the last three winners. It was fun and showy, with just enough quality and depth to not be completely frivolous. However, it never attained nor even endeavored for greatness. It was exactly the type of film the Academy has been loving lately. However, maybe the younger crowd was getting sick of these pablum winners, and wanted a return to the meaty darkness of THE HURT LOCKER. Something that was cinematically gorgeous, but also had something to say. Whatever the reason, 12 YEARS A SLAVE benefited from voters wanting a true piece of art to win rather than just entertainment. Perhaps we had to put up with the three previous winners in order to push 12 YEARS A SLAVE across the finish line.

I fear we are going to see a return to the softer Academy like after THE HURT LOCKER, but for now I am just going to enjoy this moment when the artists in the Academy overcome the entertainers to pick a Best Picture winner we can be proud of. This does not happen often, so savor this victory.
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Re: Best Picture

Postby Sabin » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:57 am

When Will Smith walked on-staged, I found myself with two completely contradictory ideas in my head at the same time. On the one: "Oh, it's Will Smith. That means 12 Years a Slave is going to win." On the other: "Oh, it's Will Smith. That means Gravity is going to win."

When I was 14, I was in love with Braveheart. It was my first favorite movie (to my current embarrassment) and that Whoopi Goldberg hosted evening had suspense until the very end of the night. I fell in love with the Oscars that night. Last Sunday, I kinda fell back in love with the Oscars. They meant something. I can't say that Ellen was a great host. I can't say that the producers did a great job. There were a host of dumb choices. But 12 Years a Slave won Best Picture and although from minute one the show declared itself as Team Not Racist, it was a damn corker as Gravity won Oscar after Oscar. Steve McQueen's film is the best movie to win since No Country for Old Men and it's a movie the Academy actually can be proud of.
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Re: Best Picture

Postby Sonic Youth » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:14 am

OscarGuy wrote:Except Sonic, a LOT of films have won with only three Oscars in recent years.


I was poking fun at how all during the precursors 12 Years front-runner status was dismissed every time it won a big prize.
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Re: Best Picture

Postby OscarGuy » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:03 am

Except Sonic, a LOT of films have won with only three Oscars in recent years. On top of that, I kept referencing Cabaret/Godfather, but was made to feel like I was a fool for predicting it. All that influence had me convinced that the Academy was never going to reward 12 Years a Slave, so I changed my prediction. So, yeah. I blame the people here for making it seem so ludicrous.
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Re: Best Picture

Postby Big Magilla » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:16 am

12 Years a Slave was always going to win Best Picture and take Screenplay and Supporting Actress with it. For a while it looked like it would have taken Best Actor and Supporting Actor as well and probably would have if there hadn't been the groundswell there was for Matthew McConaughey and Jared Leto.

For shame all those Oscar bloggers out there going out of their way to find and quote "typical" Oscar voters who wouldn't even watch it. It was the prestige film of the year with no competition in that area unlike last year when we had Lincoln; Zero Dark Thirty and yes, Les Misérables all vying for that vote, allowing a popular film like Argo to prevail. Gravity would have been a popular winner, but it wouldn't have been the class act the "typical" voter tends to look for.

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Re: Best Picture

Postby Okri » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:13 am

OscarGuy wrote:And one last thing. I'm going to stop listening to you guys. Other than my own stupid belief that 12 Years could win Costume Design, three of the four last-minute swaps I made were based on posts here. I should go with my gut more often and ignore you people. My chance at 23/24 became 19/24.


Yeah, I blame Tee too for thinking Gravity was going to win :D

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Re: Best Picture

Postby HarryGoldfarb » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:42 am

All I can say is that I am very happy...
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