Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby flipp525 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:01 pm

ITALIANO wrote:
flipp525 wrote:save possibly for Gravity


Of course. Gravity is SO original...

Are you all here brainwashed or what?

I find this response utterly rude and I'm not responding to it. Yes, all people who have a different opinion than you are "brainwashed", clearly. That's exactly what must be happening here. //epic eyeroll
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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby ITALIANO » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:55 pm

flipp525 wrote:save possibly for Gravity


Of course. Gravity is SO original...

Are you all here brainwashed or what?

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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby flipp525 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:08 am

Though I think Reza's point about Lupita's character being rewarded rather than the performance is valid (albeit indelicately communicated), I do respectfully disagree. I think people who feel this way are forgetting one very important thing: save possibly for Gravity, there's virtually *nothing* original in Hollywood anymore, be it the slave film (12 Years a Slave) or the con job/heist film (American Hustle). At this point, Lupita's slave character is no more a cliche than Jennifer Lawrence's brassy blonde wife or June Squibb's acid-tongued old lady in Nebraska (or Mira Sorvino's hooker in Mighty Aphrodite or Marisa Tomei's ditzy gf in My Cousin Vinny and so on and so on). They've all been done hundreds of times before and will likely be done hundreds more in the future.

This is why I feel Lupita absolutely deserves not only her nomination but also the win. It's not the originality of the role but the interpretation of it that matters -- i.e., it wasn't the role but how affecting she was in it and affecting indeed she was. Her eyes dead from hopelessness, her body limp from all the pain inflicted on it, the look of being left behind ... she conveyed all of these emotions brilliantly. That's not to say the others in her category weren't good, too, just that I completely understand why she's being heralded for her performance. It's a stunning debut and I truly feel all the praise she's receiving is justified based solely on her talent, not the subject matter of the film.
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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby Sabin » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:12 pm

A month ago, I said that there's no reason why Jennifer Lawrence won't win, and even if I've slightly cooled on her chances I don't think people won't vote for her because she won last year. Let's put it this way: if she didn't win last year, she'd be a lock. This year, all it means is she CAN win. The reason that I'm leaning away from a Jennifer Lawrence win is because it's becoming clear to me that American Hustle has the makings of a big ol' Oscar loser. Before the nominations, I trusted my gut and predicted that American Hustle would score four/four acting nominations again for David O. Russell. And now I'm trusting my gut in thinking that the Academy certainly likes David O. Russell movies but not enough to really give them Oscars.

I haven't seen Julia Roberts' film so I can't attest to the quality of her performance, and I won't see her film so I likely won't ever attest to the quality of her performance. Every frame of the film that I've seen only furthers solidifies in my mind how flukey her skyrocket to fame really was. Has there ever been a movie star whose stardom constituted such peaks and valleys?

I'm not sure who I think deserves to win. Sally Hawkins' perceived-coattails nomination is in the running for most forgettable nomination of the year, but her role is so negligibly sketched and she does quite a lot with it. It's not so far removed a piece of work from Poppy. I'm the happiest for her nomination so I suppose she's my choice. I think June Squibb is the likeliest surprise winner of this lineup and she brings a hennish authenticity to a role that elevates a role that is two whiskers away from a rapping granny. She's quite good but can't escape some of the trappings of her part.

Two months ago, the race was between 12 Years a Slave and American Hustle. No, 12 Years a Slave and American Hustle are in a race to see which film wins zero Oscars. Like L.A. Confidential, another exceptional film that critics just couldn't force the Academy to choose over a blockbuster spectacle that didn't have a writer, it's a foregone conclusion for a writing Oscar and perhaps admired enough to honor a performance that operates as synecdoche of the film. I think Nyong'o is going to win because she lives up to the challenges of her role, and that's more than enough to win an Oscar. There is the spectacle of her performance, which like Anne Hathaway, like Mo'Nique, like Jennifer Hudson, just shuts the film down whenever she's on-screen, screaming out "I am giving a performance here!" There is the fact that voters respond to the role she is playing, which absolutely like Octavia Spencer plays like a character who is living their own movie and we happen to glimpse in. In a category with a decades-long track record of honoring people barely heard from before, I don't think her unknown status begins to work against her, and she's managed to upstage Jennifer Lawrence in acceptance speeches. But the biggest reason why I'm more confident in predicting a Lupita Nyong'o win now is because 12 Years a Slave is not going to win Best Picture.
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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby OscarGuy » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:50 pm

Rolo, I will be shocked if McQueen wins Best Director. There is just too much historical context to suggest he can overcome Cuaron. BAFTA might change that, but I'm not so sure it will. Matter of fact, I think Gravity has a better shot at winning Best Picture than McQueen does of winning Best Director. He would still place second in that category, but that's not saying a lot in that race.
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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby FilmFan720 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:46 pm

I still haven't seen August: Osage County, and probably won't until it is on DVD, so I can't chime in on Julia Roberts.

I love Jennifer Lawrence, and I really like American Hustle, but I'm not enthusiastic about Jennifer Lawrence in American Hustle. She gets some great lines, but it is the first time I have ever seen her really working as an actor and I think it shows. It's not that she's too young, but she is a little too inexperienced and I think the strings show a few too many times for me to endorse a win here.

Sally Hawkins is very good in Blue Jasmine (much better than her more awarded co-star), and probably does the best of the cast handling Woody Allen's dialogue. It is one of my lesser Woody Allen films, though, and she doesn't do enough to really excite me.

To classify Lupita Nyong'o's work as one-note or campy is choosing to see what you want to see (and racist, but that's a different discussion). Do I think she is great in the film? Not precisely, but she is very good and brings a lot more to the character than the dialect or the one scene with the soap. She does a lot with quite looks and has a haunted quality to her that carries a lot of the work on its shoulders. The structural problems the film develops in the final third don't help her at all, but she will win here, I won't complain and I will excitedly look to see what she will do next.

My vote would go to June Squibb, who brings such heart and humor to Nebraska. She gets the best lines in the film (and maybe the best lines of this lineup, which is filled with zippy dialogue), and gives them with impeccable comedic timing but also with a rooted honesty that makes them feel so real. More than the others I've seen, you can credit a lot of the success of Nebraska on what she brings to the film.
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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby Eric » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:40 pm

Mister Tee wrote:I've been pleasantly surprised that, Eric aside, even such a Payne-averse community as this board has mostly responded quite favorably to Nebraska.

You might be even more pleasantly surprised to find that, my intense hatred of the film on the whole aside, I am a comparative fan of what Squibb does in it.

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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby rolotomasi99 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:09 pm

OscarGuy wrote:I doubt people will really vote out of White Guilt. If that were the case, we'd be talking Steve McQueen as a Best Director contender, The Color Purple would have won Best Picture and any number of other ludicrous suggestions that have been made in the name of supposed white guilt.


Wait, when did this happen? I know McQueen's chances have diminished, but it sounds like you are saying it is not even in the realm of possibility he will win. Cuaron is the frontrunner, and I thought McQueen was next in line, then Russell, then Scorsese, and finally Payne. Did the line-up change?
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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby Mister Tee » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:07 pm

I may be the only one without a hungry dog in this fight. Anyone but Julia Roberts winning would be an acceptable outcome for me, and I can't say any one of the other four jump out as more deserving than the others.

Yeah, Julia Roberts. Like dws said, the bloggers and those folks who laughably call themselves critics hopped to when told Roberts was to be considered supporting (had that original "Streep is supporting" feint gone forward, they'd have backed that just as forcibly), and here we are, with the play's dominant character somehow slotted in the lower category. At least Hailee Steinfeld, in a similar situation, gave a particularly memorable performance I didn't mind seeing singled out (I'd have felt the same about Will Forte, had his fraud-attempt paid off). But Roberts does hit-and-miss work, and by me robbed someone more deserving of this slot. And of course she has no shot at winning, making one wonder what the purpose of it all was, beyond Harvey racking up more meaningless points on his board.

My season-long faith in Sally Hawkins paid off on nominations day, but I think that's as far as she goes. The very things that are so good about her performance (the subtlety, above all) will work against her with voters who have shown a taste for broad flash (cf. Melissa Leo).

After that, I think anyone CAN win. I've been pleasantly surprised that, Eric aside, even such a Payne-averse community as this board has mostly responded quite favorably to Nebraska. I've heard, anecdotally, that this is even truer among the (older) Academy set, so, even though the film hasn't made much noise at the Guilds, I think it's not entirely out of the race for its two acting candidates. I definitely rank Squibb third, but the kind of close third that, in tight voting, can slip through just the way flipp describes.

Yes, I think clearly Jennifer Lawrence, without a win last year, would be romping away with this. Popular young star, showing range, third nomination in four years, showy role in major best picture contender -- that's pretty much the package. She's strong enough, in fact, that even the handicap of having won just a year back doesn't rule her out completely, as it would most. I give her a shot at winning.

But the outcome will mostly rest on how voters feel about Lupita Nyong'o -- both her performance and the size of her role, and to some degree her film. I'm somewhat in the middle on the matter of her performance: I think it's a powerful role and she plays it well, though with the proviso one can never be sure how strong an actress' work is when it's the first time one has seen her. But it did strike me as a role on the smallish side (an issue I don't have with June Squibb, though I'm told they have roughly equivalent screen time -- perhaps that's down to how impactful I found each character on her film). Had I felt Nyong'o played a more dominant part in 12 Years' narrative, I might be as enthusiastic as her more avid supporters here. As it is, I'm ambivalent and I imagine alot of voters will be, as well.

And I will say that race may play a part in the voting, for this reason: at a certain point a few months back, this was seen as a landmark year for black performers/creators -- remember when we thought we might have three black supporting actress nominees? When The Butler and Fruitvale Station looked like they might join 12 Years in the best picture race? That narrative already suffered quite a bit on nominations day. But if, at the end of such a year, the only thing we have to show for it is a screenplay win for John Ridley, there might be a bit of embarrassmdent. Of course, 12 Years could still win best picture, which would alleviate lot of this (and probably carry Nyong'o to victory). But, even if that's not the case, I think there are voters who'd consider Nyong'o the best spot in which to make a statement. I'm not saying most voters, or even more than a small number -- but, in what I view as a close race, the few who vote on that basis could provide a winning margin for Nyong'o.

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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby OscarGuy » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:23 am

Ksrymy, I think you've overreacted a bit. I was referring to Reza's assertion that if Nyong'o wins it will be because of sympathy for the part/plight of African Americans rather than a genuine appreciation of her performance.

I doubt people will really vote out of White Guilt. If that were the case, we'd be talking Steve McQueen as a Best Director contender, The Color Purple would have won Best Picture and any number of other ludicrous suggestions that have been made in the name of supposed white guilt.

The Academy has a liberal bias, not much of one, but it does. They have absolutely no problem rewarding films thta support a liberal viewpoint, but they are not in the habit of making sentimental or forward-thinking gestures. Just ask the producers of Brokeback Mountain, or Julie Christie or any number of other aging actors who lost to younger actors but should have won by the logic that Reza was displaying. Voters don't vote because they want to reward a plight.

I'm sure there are critics out there who hated Nyong'o's performance, but by and large, critics have championed her portrayal. It sounds to me like you guys are in the minority, not the majority and trying to diminish the achievement by saying she'll only win because of some misplaced white guilt is thoroughly ridiculous.
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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby Reza » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:55 am

OscarGuy wrote:Reza, your argument is invalid. YOU think it's just the Academy trying to "look good," but there are plenty of people who entirely disagree with you and think she gave one of the, if not THE best performance of the year. If everyone were voting for her out of some misguided desire to recognize a black actress or to recognize the slave experience, then perhaps your thoughts would hold water, but just because you disagree with something does not make it so.


Certainly it's MY view. I thought it was obvious since that was MY comment. It was NOT meant to be forced onto others here. I'm sorry maybe I should have advertised my comment with the silly ''in my honest opinion'' or some equally quaint words. It's all apples and oranges in the end. If Lupita wins it does not necessarily mean she was the best. There may be others here or elsewhere who think Julia Roberts was the best amongst this bunch. And even that view is ok. Why are so many here throwing a shit fit just because some of us feel Lupita wasn't that great? It's just an opinion at the end of the day.

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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby Eric » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:34 am

There are legitimate arguments to be made that viewers are responding to the role as much if not more so than the performance (a practice I dislike just as much when it applies to famous actors playing other famous people in shaky biopics, for the record). They're just largely not being made on this thread or this board.

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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby dws1982 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:46 am

ksrymy wrote:
OscarGuy wrote:Reza, your argument is invalid. YOU think it's just the Academy trying to "look good," but there are plenty of people who entirely disagree with you and think she gave one of the, if not THE best performance of the year. If everyone were voting for her out of some misguided desire to recognize a black actress or to recognize the slave experience, then perhaps your thoughts would hold water, but just because you disagree with something does not make it so.

And there are people who entirely disagree with those who think she gave the best performance of the year, but that thought never occurred to you, did it?

It occurred to me (and probably Oscar Guy as well), but given that the criticism of the performance is often couched in borderline racist jokes and put-downs, maybe just we're less inclined to to take it seriously.

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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby ksrymy » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:21 am

OscarGuy wrote:Reza, your argument is invalid. YOU think it's just the Academy trying to "look good," but there are plenty of people who entirely disagree with you and think she gave one of the, if not THE best performance of the year. If everyone were voting for her out of some misguided desire to recognize a black actress or to recognize the slave experience, then perhaps your thoughts would hold water, but just because you disagree with something does not make it so.

And there are people who entirely disagree with those who think she gave the best performance of the year, but that thought never occurred to you, did it?
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Re: Categories One-By-One: Supporting Actress

Postby OscarGuy » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:11 am

Reza, your argument is invalid. YOU think it's just the Academy trying to "look good," but there are plenty of people who entirely disagree with you and think she gave one of the, if not THE best performance of the year. If everyone were voting for her out of some misguided desire to recognize a black actress or to recognize the slave experience, then perhaps your thoughts would hold water, but just because you disagree with something does not make it so.
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