Bruce Dern Speaks for Us All

[Big Magilla]

Actually the Tonys were more on track when they named their awards Best Actor, Actress, Featured Actor and Featured Actress. They've since modified the process so that committees determine who qualifies for lead vs. featured but initially only those actors and actresses whose names appeared above the title of the play were eligible for Best Actor or Best Actress. All others were eligible for Best Featured Actor or Actress which is why you have such lead players as Yul Brynner in The King and I for which he later won a Best Actor Oscar; Maureen Stapleton and Eli Wallach in Anna Magnani and Burt Lancaster's later screen roles in The Rose Tattoo; Jo Van Fleet in Geraldine Page's later screen role in The Trip to Bountiful; Francis L. Sullivan in Charles Laughton's later screen role in Witness for the Prosecution; Ed Begley in Fredric March's later screen role in Inherit the Wind and Andy Griffith in No Time for Sergeants all taking home Tonys for "featured" performances in the early days of the award.

Category manipulation is nothing new at the Oscars. It was the back-to-back Best Actor nominations of supporting actors Frank Morgan in The Affairs of Cellini and Franchot Tone in Mutiny on the Bounty that led to the establishment of the Supporting Actor and Actress Oscars in 1936. In the first year of the awards, Stu Erwin, who was the star of Pigskin Parade albeit a bigger name on radio than in film was nominated in support for his performance while Spencer Tracy, an established star, was nominated in the Best Actor category for San Francisco in which he was billed under the title in clear support of Clark Gable and Jeanette MacDonald.

On the actress side, Paulette Goddard who was Claudette Colbert and Veronica Lake's co-lead in So Proudly We Hail was nominated in support in 1943 and that year's Best Actress winner Jennifer Jones was nominated in support the following year for Since You Went Away in which she was again a co-lead of Colbert's. It was Barry Fitzgerald's dual nomination in both categories for Going My Way that same year that led to the rule that the studios dictate lead and supporting designation. It was ironically the failure of another actor to be nominated for playing a priest that led to the abolition of the practice. Trevor Howard arguably gave a better performance in 1970's Ryan's Daughter than John Mills did in is Oscar winning role as the village idiot, but his fellow actors were unable to nominate him because MGM listed him as one of the film's three leads along with Robert Mitchum and Sarah Miles.

Today, while there are no rules as to which category an actor can be nominated in, publicity and actors' wishes often, although not always, dictate their eventual placement. While there have been several instances of players pushed for supporting nominations being nominated in lead instead, there have been no examples I am aware of, of players pushed for lead ending up in support. Bruce Dern, if he is so nominated without changing his stance would be the first. More likely he will end up like Rosalind Russell who insisted that Columbia list her as lead in Picnic rather than support where she might have easily won. The Best Actress field that year being rather rich, she had no chance at a nomination, much less a win.

Not having yet seen Nebraska I have no idea whether Dern is right or whether he is guilty of the same actor's vanity that propelled Russell's stance. I have no idea whether his stance will get him nominated in lead or if he will be passed over for what may well be five stronger sure lead performances. Only time will tell.

[Eric]

The Academy could clear up all confusion by renaming the lead categories "Best Actor/Actress in a One-Person Cast or Imitating a Notable Figure/Celebrity in a Biopic."

[flipp525]

Just when Nebraska comes out you'll be able to judge for yourself. For me, he's definitely the Supporting. To each his own

He's not supporting. Even the actor thinks that that possible placement is absurd.

[mojoe92]

Just when Nebraska comes out you'll be able to judge for yourself. For me, he's definitely the Supporting. To each his own

[ITALIANO]

I believe Sonic once noted that this POV argument would have made Mary Badham the lead in To Kill a Mockingbird and could have reduced Atticus to a supporting character.

Actually it was me, but, I mean, there are countless examples, really. And Ratso Rizzo as Supporting is indeed absurd.

[Mister Tee]

Any argument that includes pushing Ratso Rizzo to supporting loses me right off the bat. In fact, changing that placement -- or Winger's in Terms of Endearment -- is a horror-show example many of us would use to show how much less integrity the process has today than it did in the past.

I believe Sonic once noted that this POV argument would have made Mary Badham the lead in To Kill a Mockingbird and could have reduced Atticus to a supporting character.

[The Original BJ]

The hard thing about this debate right now is that most of us have not seen Nebraska, so most of us aren't able to make a solid argument about Bruce Dern as lead/supporting either way. All I know is, Dern has so clearly articulated the way the system has just been abused in recent years, in which any movie that doesn't have one single lead is ripe for fraud to make it "easier" to get the nomination, and so I have to tip my hat to him.

Rather than POV, one way I like to look at things is if a movie is primarily about the relationship between two people, then both of them are leads. So, by that reasoning, Dustin Hoffman in Midnight Cowboy is unquestionably a lead, even though Jon Voight has slightly more screen time.

[ITALIANO]

Italiano hit it on the head, though. POV is certainly a possible tool in aiding classification, but not a hard and fast rule.

I acrually think that POV can be interesting in studying for example the narrative of a movie, etc - but when it comes to classify a performance as Leading or Supporting, it's completely useless. And by the way, in several movies the "POV character" is the one with the less active role, so it really doesnt make sense.

[FilmFan720]

So, mojoe, how then would you classify a film with two leads? For example, My Own Private Idaho or The Godfather are two films where you have nominated two leads? How are those two films different than Nebraska? I'm not trying to attack you, or belabor a point, but for those of us who don't get to see everything so easily it might help understand why there is a lead/supporting debate over Bruce Dern.

[Okri]

Apparently, Streep is going lead now. O'Neill "recanted" (I'm not wrong, they changed their minds due to my influence etc)

FWIW.

Italiano hit it on the head, though. POV is certainly a possible tool in aiding classification, but not a hard and fast rule.

[ITALIANO]

Yes, sure. So for example Meryl Streep should have been nominated for Best Supporting Actress in Sophie's Choice, with Peter MacNicol as a possible Best Actor nominee....

This "point of view" theory doesn't make sense, of course.

[mojoe92]

I actually have Max von Sydow - Pelle the Conqueror, for my vote... thanks though

Best Actor

Dustin Hoffman- Rain Man - WINNER
Gene Hackman- Mississippi Burning
Max von Sydow- Pelle The Conqueror - RUNNER UP
Michael Keaton- Beetlejuice
Willem Dafoe- Last Temptation of Christ

I guess a month can change someone's mind.

Either way, you still have him as a lead.

Jesus, I made a mistake. It's supposed to be reversed. It's simple, I am a stickler for putting the correct actor in the right category, but for an example, Emma Stone didn't deliver an Oscar worthy performance in The Help and Viola Davis while Oscar worthy it definitely was not worth a win. Both Davis and Stone were the leads of The Help, but since only Davis pulled off a worthy performance she earned the spot.. Make sense?

Tom Cruise did not give a worthy performance to be nominated and both he and Hoffman were the leads. Hoffman giving a worthy performance and being one of the two leads deserved his spot

Now with Nebraska, Will Forte has more screen time in the beginning but like I said in my below post it seems they share the screen 50/50, so one can argue they are both leads BUT the story is told in first person via Forte's character, and while Forte does have an Oscar worthy performance I would not nominate him. I would nominate Dern in the Supporting category. He is Supporting. He is not the Lead.

Lots of Screentime for Dern? Yes. In most of the movie? Yes. Is the story told from his eyes? No = Supporting

It's just like Midnight Cowboy, Voight- Lead actor, story told from his POV.. Hoffman- Supporting Actor, story not told in his pov

[ksrymy]

I actually have Max von Sydow - Pelle the Conqueror, for my vote... thanks though

Best Actor

Dustin Hoffman- Rain Man - WINNER
Gene Hackman- Mississippi Burning
Max von Sydow- Pelle The Conqueror - RUNNER UP
Michael Keaton- Beetlejuice
Willem Dafoe- Last Temptation of Christ

I guess a month can change someone's mind.

Either way, you still have him as a lead.

[mojoe92]

That's the problem with this whole lead/support issue. Films can have two leads.

Agreed but it's not like Terms of Endearment ( for example) where the story wasn't told in first person, it was told as a whole.

Nebraska on the other hand is in Will Forte's character's first person tell all, therefor making Forte the lead and Dern the Supporting

Then explain to me why you have Dustin Hoffman as your Best Actor winner in 1988 when Rain Man is really a story of Tom Cruise's character dealing with the newfound burden of his autistic brother.

I actually have Max von Sydow - Pelle the Conqueror, for my vote... thanks though

[ksrymy]

That's the problem with this whole lead/support issue. Films can have two leads.

Agreed but it's not like Terms of Endearment ( for example) where the story wasn't told in first person, it was told as a whole.

Nebraska on the other hand is in Will Forte's character's first person tell all, therefor making Forte the lead and Dern the Supporting

Then explain to me why you have Dustin Hoffman as your Best Actor winner in 1988 when Rain Man is really a story of Tom Cruise's character dealing with the newfound burden of his autistic brother.