Spirit Award Nominations

For the films of 2013
mlrg
Adjunct
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:19 am
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby mlrg » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:27 pm

ITALIANO wrote:Ok, I was just asking... Now I know that he had a recurring role in a successful TV series (which I've never heard of, and like me, I'm sure, several other Europeans).


just a quick note to say that The Sopranos was a major hit in Portugal and is considered here probably the best american TV series ever

The Original BJ
Emeritus
Posts: 3920
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:49 pm

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby The Original BJ » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:24 pm

I don't think anyone would argue that James Gandolfini had a major film career, or that he is overdue for an Oscar, or anything of that sort. I don't even think he should (or will) win an Oscar this year.

But do I think other actors in Hollywood -- especially those members of SAG and the Academy -- might have him more on their radar this year because of his passing? Absolutely. I know that you are not familiar with The Sopranos, Italiano -- which is fine, I'm not familiar with much tv from other countries myself -- but Gandolfini's work on The Sopranos was a major acting achievement. It was not a recurring role, he WAS the show, a show acclaimed by many to be the greatest in American television history. And yes, it was one role, but it was one role over an entire decade, and the amount of colors the actor showed in that time was remarkable. It was also an incredibly groundbreaking role, as Gandolfini played the kind of complex anti-hero who hadn't really headlined a tv series before, but which has now been a staple of quality tv in the past decade. And his stage work -- in New York and LA -- was also hugely acclaimed, and the one time I saw him live I thought he was a beast of an acting presence. Add to that the fact that he apparently was very well-liked as a human being, and I see an actor whom I think many want to honor with some sort of "goodbye" recognition, and I don't think they'll be splitting hairs over whether his major work was in film or not when a lovely last film performance from him is staring them in the face.

On a broader topic, I would agree that there is very much about popular culture (especially American pop culture) that is horrible. I've noticed lately that the programming on the tvs at my gym -- one entertainment "news" program after another focusing on the daily lives of the most vapid celebrities (many of whom I've never even heard of), the most mundane and saccharine reality tv shows, sitcoms that contain barely a laugh in an entire episode -- is quite far removed from the type of entertainment I would choose to watch. And I guess everything exists on a spectrum, so something like The Sopranos is certainly much closer to that kind of popular culture than, say, a Kiarostami film. But I'm genuinely puzzled at how someone could dismiss The Sopranos's brand of pop culture, and even bother commenting on the Oscars at all. I've found more pleasure in The Sopranos than most movies of the last decade -- if it isn't the kind of storytelling worth rewarding, then very few American films should EVER be nominated for Oscars. I know we all have our gripes with the Academy -- heaven knows, I do -- but to expand upon a point Uri made recently, if one doesn't want the Oscars to recognize mainstream films at all, then the Oscars probably aren't going to be that enjoyable for that person to follow. (Not saying this is you, Italiano. Just trying to make the point that something like The Sopranos is a pretty strong example of the kind of artistic achievement the Oscars are set up to honor, though in a different medium.)

On the lead/support debate, I'd be willing to be a lot more flexible with Gandolfini than, say, Will Forte. Gandolfini does have a sizable part in Enough Said...but it's pretty easy to argue the movie is Julia Louis-Dreyfus's story. I can't think of any scenes in the movie that don't have her in them, but I can think of a lot that don't have Gandolfini. I would argue it's comparable to Léa Seydoux in Blue is the Warmest Color -- she's got a lot of screen time, but Exarchopoulos has significantly MORE, and the movie is definitely structured to be Adele's story. I could see someone making a solid case for Gandolfini in either category -- that won't be the hill I go to die on this year.

ITALIANO
Emeritus
Posts: 3813
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: MILAN
Contact:

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby ITALIANO » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:26 pm

Yes, yes, ok, but - great as it was - he played only one really important role. He played it for years. But it's just one role, come on.

And it's true that there are countless very talented actors who work in tv - or on the stage, or simply in foreign countries - who should win Oscars and never do. And that's why I find a bit unfair that this actor is so often mentioned as Oscar-worthy and so many others aren't. Is it because he was very good or because he was - again - popular?

Uri
Assistant
Posts: 998
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 11:37 pm
Location: Israel

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby Uri » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:32 am

ITALIANO wrote:Oh, of course - and Dickens, too. Art IS rooted in society, it MUST "talk" to people. I'd be crazy to deny that. But the problem is opposite - it is that there's a tendency today to consider "popular culture" ipso facto as art - as if democracy can be applied to art, as if being "popular" (a term which I hate) means being artistically valuable. Sometimes yes, it can happen - but more often, no - and several true masterpieces arent enjoyable, arent easily accessible. So for me just appearing in a successful tv series (and, though I admit that I'm less certain here, the idea that art can be serialized makes me slightly unconfortable, as it does the idea that only ONE role, repeated over and over, even very well acted, can be considered as "a great career") doesnt mean much. But also, as great as tv can be (and it can be sometimes great), the Oscars arent for tv - or for the stage (and many actors who had a great career on stage never won Oscars, and rightly so) - they are for movies. I'm very strict on this, too strict maybe, but in today's general confusion being strict is very important.

But after I see Enough Said, I could become James Galdonfini's number 1 fan, who knows.


The point is that many people where appreciative enough of Gandolfini and sadden enough by his death to welcome a recognition for his fine work in ES, and yes, it will be looked at a recognition of a fine actor, regardless of the medium he became famous for. And let’s face it – the Edward G. Robinsons and the Barbara Stanwycks of our time can only fully blossom on American television (knowing Brian Cranston film career would never suggest the charismatic impact he’s capable of projecting). And what was the last American tv show you followed? The Love Boat? When done right, a good tv series can offer you a broad, fulfilling kind of narrative and a lingering experience motion pictures can not do. And with the kind of films that are being made now, it’s television where many great actors (and certainly actresses) can showcase their cinematic acting abilities. So if, for example, Edie Falco will ever win an Oscar it will be a nice tribute for a talented screen actress (or actor if you like), regardless of the medium in which she was given the opportunities to prove it.

ITALIANO
Emeritus
Posts: 3813
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: MILAN
Contact:

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby ITALIANO » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:40 am

OscarGuy wrote:There is no scenario that I can imagine where Gandolfini wins an Oscar. The Sopranos is really his only major achievement and he's been honored handsomely by the Television Academy on a number of occasions. He is not a film legend and while there may be residual affection for the man in the Hollywood community (you should hear how Rod Lurie talks about him and his collaboration with him on The Last Castle. However, if he is nominated for Best Supporting Actor, A) it would be category fraud and B) it will be his honorarium. There will be no Oscar in Gandolfini's future.



Exactly.

ITALIANO
Emeritus
Posts: 3813
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: MILAN
Contact:

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby ITALIANO » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:39 am

Uri wrote:
ITALIANO wrote:Ok, I was just asking... Now I know that he had a recurring role in a successful TV series (which I've never heard of, and like me, I'm sure, several other Europeans). And I respect that - but then give him a posthumous or a honorary Emmy! Because honestly nothing that he has done in MOVIES, in CINEMA, seems to be Oscar-worthy, and the Oscars should be for movies. (Even Jennifer Hudson had been very popular in a TV show, but we were all justly shocked when this made her a front-runner for the Best Supporting Actress Oscar). And don't get me wrong - if he's that good in Enough Said (and you know that I trust you, so I'm sure he is), he DOES deserve to be nominated. But sorry - not for his career.

And, high quality or not, I will be honest once again. I HATE popular culture. I mean, I respect it - but I prefer elitist culture. Because popular culture -again, respectable in itself - when it's taken too seriously and mistaken for art can lead to big mistakes.

And, as for Roberto Benigni - or I should say the ghost of Roberto Benighi, which interestingly follows me only on this board after so many years, and only because I'm Italian like him - I would have never thought of him, but if I have to, there's a difference: he's collectively dismissed by those same people who collectively think that James Gandolfini is a great actor. And, as I've shown here often, I've always been skeptical of "collective thinking" - or cliches in general. It's stronger than me I guess :)


Well, some of the distinctions you make might be a little anachronistic. And it’s been said quite a lot, but some of the best cinematic work of the past two decades or so was made for television. Many would argue that Heimat or The Singing Ditective or La meglio gioventù are all major CINEMATIC achievements. It’s hard to come up with American films of recent years which are as satisfying as work of ART as The Sopranos or Mad Men (and I’m sure there are some people even on the right side of the pond who’d agree). And don’t make me make the populist yet rather accurate point about the fact that the works Shakespeare, Moliere and Verdi were all considered part of the popular, crowd pleasing culture of their times.




Oh, of course - and Dickens, too. Art IS rooted in society, it MUST "talk" to people. I'd be crazy to deny that. But the problem is opposite - it is that there's a tendency today to consider "popular culture" ipso facto as art - as if democracy can be applied to art, as if being "popular" (a term which I hate) means being artistically valuable. Sometimes yes, it can happen - but more often, no - and several true masterpieces arent enjoyable, arent easily accessible. So for me just appearing in a successful tv series (and, though I admit that I'm less certain here, the idea that art can be serialized makes me slightly unconfortable, as it does the idea that only ONE role, repeated over and over, even very well acted, can be considered as "a great career") doesnt mean much. But also, as great as tv can be (and it can be sometimes great), the Oscars arent for tv - or for the stage (and many actors who had a great career on stage never won Oscars, and rightly so) - they are for movies. I'm very strict on this, too strict maybe, but in today's general confusion being strict is very important.

But after I see Enough Said, I could become James Galdonfini's number 1 fan, who knows.

Uri
Assistant
Posts: 998
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 11:37 pm
Location: Israel

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby Uri » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:19 am

ITALIANO wrote:Ok, I was just asking... Now I know that he had a recurring role in a successful TV series (which I've never heard of, and like me, I'm sure, several other Europeans). And I respect that - but then give him a posthumous or a honorary Emmy! Because honestly nothing that he has done in MOVIES, in CINEMA, seems to be Oscar-worthy, and the Oscars should be for movies. (Even Jennifer Hudson had been very popular in a TV show, but we were all justly shocked when this made her a front-runner for the Best Supporting Actress Oscar). And don't get me wrong - if he's that good in Enough Said (and you know that I trust you, so I'm sure he is), he DOES deserve to be nominated. But sorry - not for his career.

And, high quality or not, I will be honest once again. I HATE popular culture. I mean, I respect it - but I prefer elitist culture. Because popular culture -again, respectable in itself - when it's taken too seriously and mistaken for art can lead to big mistakes.

And, as for Roberto Benigni - or I should say the ghost of Roberto Benighi, which interestingly follows me only on this board after so many years, and only because I'm Italian like him - I would have never thought of him, but if I have to, there's a difference: he's collectively dismissed by those same people who collectively think that James Gandolfini is a great actor. And, as I've shown here often, I've always been skeptical of "collective thinking" - or cliches in general. It's stronger than me I guess :)


Well, some of the distinctions you make might be a little anachronistic. And it’s been said quite a lot, but some of the best cinematic work of the past two decades or so was made for television. Many would argue that Heimat or The Singing Ditective or La meglio gioventù are all major CINEMATIC achievements. It’s hard to come up with American films of recent years which are as satisfying as work of ART as The Sopranos or Mad Men (and I’m sure there are some people even on the right side of the pond who’d agree). And don’t make me make the populist yet rather accurate point about the fact that the works Shakespeare, Moliere and Verdi were all considered part of the popular, crowd pleasing culture of their times.

There will be no Oscar in Gandolfini's future.


What future, OG?

User avatar
OscarGuy
Site Admin
Posts: 12333
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:22 am
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby OscarGuy » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:12 am

There is no scenario that I can imagine where Gandolfini wins an Oscar. The Sopranos is really his only major achievement and he's been honored handsomely by the Television Academy on a number of occasions. He is not a film legend and while there may be residual affection for the man in the Hollywood community (you should hear how Rod Lurie talks about him and his collaboration with him on The Last Castle. However, if he is nominated for Best Supporting Actor, A) it would be category fraud and B) it will be his honorarium. There will be no Oscar in Gandolfini's future.
Wesley Lovell
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin

ITALIANO
Emeritus
Posts: 3813
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: MILAN
Contact:

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby ITALIANO » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:28 am

Ok, I was just asking... Now I know that he had a recurring role in a successful TV series (which I've never heard of, and like me, I'm sure, several other Europeans). And I respect that - but then give him a posthumous or a honorary Emmy! Because honestly nothing that he has done in MOVIES, in CINEMA, seems to be Oscar-worthy, and the Oscars should be for movies. (Even Jennifer Hudson had been very popular in a TV show, but we were all justly shocked when this made her a front-runner for the Best Supporting Actress Oscar). And don't get me wrong - if he's that good in Enough Said (and you know that I trust you, so I'm sure he is), he DOES deserve to be nominated. But sorry - not for his career.

And, high quality or not, I will be honest once again. I HATE popular culture. I mean, I respect it - but I prefer elitist culture. Because popular culture -again, respectable in itself - when it's taken too seriously and mistaken for art can lead to big mistakes.

And, as for Roberto Benigni - or I should say the ghost of Roberto Benighi, which interestingly follows me only on this board after so many years, and only because I'm Italian like him - I would have never thought of him, but if I have to, there's a difference: he's collectively dismissed by those same people who collectively think that James Gandolfini is a great actor. And, as I've shown here often, I've always been skeptical of "collective thinking" - or cliches in general. It's stronger than me I guess :)

Uri
Assistant
Posts: 998
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 11:37 pm
Location: Israel

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby Uri » Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:28 am

Sorry Marco, but this time you’re objectively wrong. When people are dismissive toward Benigni, you tell them (us) they (we) are not well-informed enough about the rich heritage he represents and presumably masters and you’re probably right. This time you are the one oblivious to what a significant place Gandolfini holds in American (and rather vastly international) popular yet high quality culture of the past two decades since you really are not familiar with a lot of the great work done on American television, a kind of work of which The Sopranos was a prime example. And yes, Gandolfini’s turn in it is a Falconetti kind of phenomenon, meaning that even if he has never done anything else his body of work would still be considered a major one. And he was good elsewhere, even in The Mexican, an admittedly not a masterpiece. And he is truly lovely in Enough Said.

ITALIANO
Emeritus
Posts: 3813
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: MILAN
Contact:

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby ITALIANO » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:12 am

I mean - can I be honest? There's all this talk about James Gandolfini, and what a great career he had, and how even the Academy could honor him with a posthumous nomination (something which happens very rarely), and my only, humble question is... Who on Earth is James Gandolfini?! It's true that I don't see ANY American movie, but still I see many movies, and I only vaguely remember a James Gandolfini in a bad movie with Brad Pitt years ago. Ok, maybe I just see the wrong movies, but if JAMES GANDOLFINI had a great careeer, then Jean-Louis Trintignant should have won ten Oscars.

Uri
Assistant
Posts: 998
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 11:37 pm
Location: Israel

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby Uri » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:47 am

Mister Tee wrote:In fact, this might be the first time the Spirits helped perpetrate category fraud: Will Forte is very good, but supporting? My butt.


As early as 1992, they placed Alfre Woodard in supporting for her co-lead turn in Passion Fish. But I guess that had more to do with “real life” politics rather than merely awards politics as is seemingly the case of Forte.

User avatar
OscarGuy
Site Admin
Posts: 12333
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:22 am
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby OscarGuy » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:24 pm

It's something you pay to join (Like AFI).

My membership was $95.00 for the year. I'm not sure if they have multiple levels of membership.
Wesley Lovell

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin

FilmFan720
Tenured
Posts: 3376
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 3:57 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby FilmFan720 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:33 pm

What is the voting body/qualification of film independent?
"Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good."
- Minor Myers, Jr.

User avatar
OscarGuy
Site Admin
Posts: 12333
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 12:22 am
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

Re: Spirit Award Nominations

Postby OscarGuy » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:24 pm

I always thought Gandolfini would be considered lead in Enough Said.

This is also MY first year as a member of Film Independent, so we shall see what transpires.
Wesley Lovell

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin


Return to “86th Predictions and Precursors”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest