Categories One-By-One: Sound Mixing

[Damien]

Unless the entertainment "news" shows or Good Morning, America are pushing him (I don't watch them), I don't see any kind of sentimental vote for Kevin O' Connell. And also, the names of the individual nominees in the technical categories are not listed on the Oscar ballot, only the movie title. Thus, no one is going to see O'Connell's name on the ballot and think, oh yeah, that's the guy who's been nominated a gazillion times and hasn't won . . . If he does win this year, it's only because Transformers is the loudest of the nominees.

And I don't think Randy Newman is an apt comparison. Not only was there a personal connection with Randy Newman because he often performed his losing songs on stage at the Oscar ceremonies over the years, even before he ever xtarted writing for movies he was already a Baby Boomer icon as a singer-songwriter. His 1972 album "Sail Away" is an integral part of the lives of many people from my generation.

Speaking of the Sound Mixing award, I remember years ago (early-to-mid 70s) some Oscar observer (I forget who -- possibly Sarris) saying, "I don't get the Sound award. As long as I can hear the dialogue then the sound people have done an exemplary job."

[Steph2]

I don't think anybody can deny the fact that the animated films that PIXAR makes are the most technically proficient.

Of course! Technical proficiency over art. Style over substance. I'm quite willing to cop to that.

[Sabin]

There is validity to both points. 'Ratatouille''s sound mixing nomination refers to how it all is mixed together, and the aural experience of the kitchen is rather perfect. As with all PIXAR films, the real triumph is in the sound effects. However, it can't be discounted that PIXAR movies pay such meticulous attention to atmospheric detail. Whether or not these movies are enjoyed by people on this board, I don't think anybody can deny the fact that the animated films that PIXAR makes are the most technically proficient.

[Damien]

It's an animated film so virtually all the sounds had to be recorded from scratch

Sounds in every movie are recorded from scratch.

And in a cartoon, the sound people don't have to worry about perfect syncing of dialogueto the movement of people's lips.

[Hollywood Z]

Yes, it is.

It's an animated film so virtually all the sounds had to be recorded from scratch: blending the actors' dialog, the music, the sound effects: the pitter-patter of the rats' paws, the kitchen noises that includes chopping, the simmering and the boiling of sauces and soups, the cling-clanging of the kitchen utensils, etc.

This all requires skill and artistry, believe it or not.

Which would make it more of an achievement in Sound Effects. Mixing, on the other hand, is a lot more difficult for an animated film. I'm not denying Ratatouille for Sound Effects, heck, I even thought it was dark horse candidate for the nominees, but for sound mixing, it wouldn't be as showy as the live action films. If you think about it, only one animated film has ever won Sound Effects, which was also directed by Brad Bird, but none have won Sound Mixing.

[anonymous1980]

I think that the best choices in this category are clearly 'The Bourne Ultimatum', 'No Country for Old Men', and 'Ratatouille'.

Oh yeah it must have been a real achievement creating fake sounds for a fake rat in fake Paris.

Yes, it is.

It's an animated film so virtually all the sounds had to be recorded from scratch: blending the actors' dialog, the music, the sound effects: the pitter-patter of the rats' paws, the kitchen noises that includes chopping, the simmering and the boiling of sauces and soups, the cling-clanging of the kitchen utensils, etc.

This all requires skill and artistry, believe it or not.

[Sabin]

Let's get real, shall we? No Country for Old Men is the only nominee in this category that uses sound as an artform to advance its story and create the necessary tension and mood so vital to the film's success. I fully expect it to lose.

'The Bourne Ultimatum' is not a work of art but the aural atmosphere it creates is absolutely artful just as integral to the film's success. The film may not be as brilliant as 'No Country' or attempt to be, but its achievement is no less impressive. 'The Bourne Ultimatum' would be completely incoherent without its skillfull editing and sound mixing and the fact that it's not and actually a solid piece of work makes it a worthy nominee. That being said, 'No Country' is the class act and 'Ratatouille' mixes its soundtrack brilliantly.

[Okri]

Can you articulate your distaste for the other sound nominees? I've only seen Ratatouille and No Country for Old Men, but I'm curious what you have against the sound design of the other three nominees (and Ratatouille, while you're at it, because while I found the film unimpressive, I thought the sound design was solid).

[Steph2]

I think that the best choices in this category are clearly 'The Bourne Ultimatum', 'No Country for Old Men', and 'Ratatouille'.

Oh yeah it must have been a real achievement creating fake sounds for a fake rat in fake Paris.

Let's get real, shall we? No Country for Old Men is the only nominee in this category that uses sound as an artform to advance its story and create the necessary tension and mood so vital to the film's success. I fully expect it to lose.

[The Original BJ]

The default-to-best-picture issue is quite interesting, Mister Tee, particularly in even earlier years. Can you imagine films like All About Eve and From Here to Eternity winning sound trophies today? How about nominations for The Apartment and Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? (Though, as you say, the practice has continued, with nods in the '80s for films like Endearment and Tootsie...and I'd argue even up through the '90s with Shakespeare in Love.)

i would not call the sound wins for ALL ABOUT EVE or FROM HERE TO ETERNITY undeserved -- not sure if you were saying that, but that is what it sounded like.

Not necessarily; I just asked if anyone could imagine those types of films winning sound trophies today. I certainly can't.

[rolotomasi99]

The default-to-best-picture issue is quite interesting, Mister Tee, particularly in even earlier years. Can you imagine films like All About Eve and From Here to Eternity winning sound trophies today? How about nominations for The Apartment and Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? (Though, as you say, the practice has continued, with nods in the '80s for films like Endearment and Tootsie...and I'd argue even up through the '90s with Shakespeare in Love.)

i would not call the sound wins for ALL ABOUT EVE or FROM HERE TO ETERNITY undeserved -- not sure if you were saying that, but that is what it sounded like.
when watching the audio commentary on the ALL ABOUT EVE dvd, one of the contributors mentioned how when restoring the film for dvd quite a bit had to be done for the picture but very little had to be done for the sound. the sound mixing and editing was so good, not much was needed to create the soundfield for people's home theatres.
also, with FROM HERE TO ETERNITY, you had the attack on pearl harbor as the more traditional "action" sound that is nominated now.
the nominations for THE APARTMENT, SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE, and even TERMS OF ENDEARMENT are not so surprising, but a nomination for TOOTSIE is completely inexplicable.

as for this year, i doubt most people in the academy care about kevin o'connell not winning. so i do not think that will factor in to their picking the winner.
i think NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN could take this award (and actually completely sweep by winning every category it is nominated). not since ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN has such a quiet film had the potential of winning the sound oscar. much like that older film, NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN used sound very effectively to create paranoia, tension, and fear. when i think of good sound "design" this was definitely the best of the year.
i think the only possibility for the win is THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM (which somehow has become the thinking person's action film).



Edited By rolotomasi99 on 1201879932

[Hollywood Z]

This is one of the few catagories that I've seen every nominee for and feel that I've seen them in good enough surround sound to judge based on their sound since Iusually have a very tuned ear towards sound in film as it is one of my favorite of the technical catagories (Sound Editing, Art Direction and Cinematography are my other three favs). Now, this year, there isn't a single dud at all in my mind. Each movie had their own task to accomplish and each succeeded in such a grandstanding way as I will point out.

Now, remember, what the academy loves to recognize here more than anything is the artistic use of mixing. That's how movies like Ray, Black Hawk Down and Dreamgirls snuck in. Normally, this catagory would be dominated by the musicals of the year, but this year, the musicals were not seen as triumphs of sound the way that films like Chicago and Moulin Rouge were. Here, we have films that used mixing levels as a way to increase the emotion as well as convey tension (the latter seeming to be the common factor amoung the nominees).

The Bourne Ultimatum was this year's action extravaganza. It had exciting action scenes as well as a very interesting story to watch unfold, which the film did through a few flashbacks (and numerous voice overs). A lot of the film's tension came from it's numerous locales in one scene, where the characters communicated with each other via radios and speakers, something the sound mixing branch loves (The Insider, Black Hawk Down, The Fugitive).

No Country for Old Men is the year's arty mix of sound and style. A lot of the action scenes where the tension comes from the distance of the characters in relation to each other, something the film does in a chilling manner, especially without the crutch of having a score to the film. So here, the sound mixers had to pull double duty as both mixers and composers as well to achieve the film's overall effect.

Ratatouille is proof that if a Pixar film is going to be up for sound, they need Brad Bird. This man, with only three animated films under his belt, is the man who knows how to utilize sound to help achieve the film's effect, mixing the kitchen effects with a score that doesn't feel overbearing and the appropriate lighthearted sense. Not only that, but the voices are mixed to perfection here, in a scene where Gusteau appears in numerous versions of himself in one scene.

3:10 to Yuma was not only a throwback to a very rarely approached genre in filmmaking (musicals being the second least approached), Yuma had to combine period effects with the illusion of impending doom. The ending is where the film truly earns it's nomination with a dialog exchange between two characters as the sound of approaching horses, trains and clocks create the tension. Then there's the shoot out in the end where the bullets seem to be coming from all five point one channels surrounding you.

Transformers was the megahit of this catagory, much in the way that Dead Man's Chest, Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings was in recent years. Yes, the film is loud and bombastic, but what do we expect from a movie based of a 80s kid's cartoon about battling robots? This film was going to be loud, explosive and chaotic, something the sound brings through in crystal clarity (whether you like the film or not). Then there's even the subtle (for this film) touch of mixing done with the voices of the Transformers themselves, which may stand out enough to be the neck up deciding factor as the winner.

For me, the easy ones out this year are 3:10 to Yuma and Ratatouille. Though both were exceptional sound jobs, a western and a kitchen aren't going to be enough to sway voters in this catagory (even Unforgiven couldn't win back in 92). No Country for Old Men would gather votes away from the battling action blockbusters by the artsy crowd that recognize the technical work done on it, but it may not be showy enough to win the award. Remember, not every Best Picture winner won Best Sound (Shakespeare in Love, Braveheart, Forrest Gump, Schindler's List) So the battle comes down to Bourne and Transformers. Bourne has the support for being the more intelligent of the action films, but Transformers has a huge box office take behind it not to mention the reports of Kevin O' Connell as well as the stinging loss he suffered last year with not just the award, but with his mother, as was adamantly reported on, especially with last year's winner, Michael Minkler, saying a scathing comment about him the same night he lost his mother, who wanted to see him win. So I think this is the first time that voters actually know the name of one of the mixers enough to vote for him, a feat that helped fellow winner Randy Newman win in a crowded year for Best Song nominees.

My pick: Transformers

[Sabin]

I'm actually kind of stoked that this year, we really don't know the outcome of several categories. Can anybody say for certain about the below the line categories beyond maybe Best Visual Effects? I can't.

I think that the best choices in this category are clearly 'The Bourne Ultimatum', 'No Country for Old Men', and 'Ratatouille'. Both of them are incredibly engaging aural experiences.

The sound work for '3:10 to Yuma' I don't see as a terribly viable candidate if only because I think it would need a co-existing sound editing nomination for the *kind* of movie it is. The mixing was solid but there are several created effects for this movie that went unnoticed. One should not impact the other but I think with a movie like '3:10 to Yuma', it does. On the other hand, the movie is the epitome of mediocre craftsmanship elevated by superior hands in post. '3:10 to Yuma''s score, sound work, and editing make the thing seem like such a stronger piece of work than James Mangold or Phedon Papamichael or Russell Crowe or Christian Bale attempted.

'Ratatouille''s sound mixing and sound effects are fairly peerless but PIXAR movies are more a triumph of created sound than mixed. I think it's out.

This Kevin O'Connor horseshit needs to stop. Who the fuck even knows what he does? He's part of a crew and when it comes to 'Transformers', the crew fucked my ears and came inside my brain, and I shouted RAPE! RAPE! but nobody heard me. It fell on deaf ears that were equally raped and came inside of. But they enjoyed it. I didn't. I have to believe that 'Transformers' it a hit or miss experience for voters as well. It seemed to be one of the most acclaimed blockbusters but that's kind of small praise this past summer. I wouldn't be surprised if it won but quite frankly because it seemed like mixing 'Transformers' required the most work.

In actuality, 'The Bourne Ultimatum' had just as much if not more to work with (which were just as much created as pre-existing) and did to to monumental atmospheric effect. The cheese also stands alone as the most acclaimed summer action blockbuster. I think it will win as it compromises respectful craftsmanship with skull-fuckery.

'No Country for Old Men' is by far the most skillfully mixed film of the year and the most technically proficient film of the Coen Brothers' career. It could win on the basis of being a Best Picture nominee and by simply being the best.

[The Original BJ]

First thing's first: while many people might dismiss some of these below-the-line categories (especially this one), I think it's great that on this board we discuss them in such detail. "What makes a great soundtrack?" can often be as interesting a question as "What makes a great leading actress?"

The default-to-best-picture issue is quite interesting, Mister Tee, particularly in even earlier years. Can you imagine films like All About Eve and From Here to Eternity winning sound trophies today? How about nominations for The Apartment and Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? (Though, as you say, the practice has continued, with nods in the '80s for films like Endearment and Tootsie...and I'd argue even up through the '90s with Shakespeare in Love.)

I'd actually argue that all of this Best Picture significance makes No Country a formidable contender, particularly because it's also nominated in the other sound category. The soundtrack is such a vital aspect of the film, and, though the silences are crucial, this isn't exactly a quiet picture. I think there are plenty of memorable loud sequences...and if Out of Africa and The English Patient can ride Best Picture coattails to trophies here, I see no reason why the far more aurally blistering No Country couldn't succeed as well. (Incidentally, I think it's the clear standout in this category, though I'm bummed fellow Best Picture competitor There Will Be Blood isn't here to compete -- its soundtrack is equally chilling.)

3:10 is out, of course, though a solid enough nominee. I think Ratatouille has a terrific soundtrack -- the mix of kitchen effects, voices, and music worked wonders in creating this marvelous world -- but it's out too. The animated trophy is in the bag; I see no reason why voters would need to extend more love to the film here.

Personally, I think the Kevin O'Connell thing is the obsession of Oscar bloggers more than voters. It's one thing for sentiment to affect above-the-line categories, but I just don't think enough voters really pay attention to make specifically voting for a soundman for a lousy film a priority. I wouldn't count Transformers out, but mainly for the reason that it's the loudest nominee here.

Bourne seems like a good compromise choice -- it's critically certified AND loud. It's a definite player, though I'm not sure No Country is out of the race.

One related topic I'd like to throw into the ring: how does the category of Sound Editing affect all this? Last year, the other sound category was expanded to include five nominees -- but both this year and last year we've had near match-ups. Sometimes the winners in both categories match up -- Titanic, Private Ryan, Matrix, Kong -- but just as often they split. Given the fact that there isn't a sole frontrunner this year, I could certainly see No Country/Bourne or Bourne/Transformers splits.

[barrybrooks8]

Here's an odd observation. Last year's nominees in SOUND MIXING and SOUND EDITING:

MIXING:
Apocalypto
Blood Diamond
Dreamgirls (winner)
Flags of our Fathers
Pirates of the Caribbean 2

EDITING:
Apocalypto
Blood Diamond
Flags of our Fathers
Letters from Iwo Jima (winner)
Pirates of the Caribbean 2


Four out of five of the nominees in both categories matched. The only ones that didn't match won. This year we have:


MIXING:
Bourne Ultimatum
No Country for Old Men
Ratatouille
3:10 to Yuma
Transformers

EDITING:
Bourne Ultimatum
No Country for Old Men
Ratatouille
There Will Be Blood
Transformers


Again, 4 out of the 5 nominees in each category match, with 3:10 and TWBB being the oddballs. Now, last year's winners were deserving or at least close (I might have preferred Blood Diamond in either category). There Will Be Blood may have a chance to sneak in a win here, and even 3:10 to Yuma could receive the pity win here from those who thought it deserved more in the way of nominations. For now, I am going with these two, as No Country and Ratatouille seem like boring winners here, Transformers may not have been that well-received.