The Hopefuls

[Hollywood Z]

But why should I be the only one on this board - or any board, for that matter - to do that?

No thanks. I'll savage any movie I deem worth savaging with no regard to how many other people enjoy it. Just like you do, right? And everyone else?

Well, I try not to savage films people enjoy because if it's something I've learned about message boards, they are a place where people either go to voice their opinion when they feel it goes against what the majority is or if they go to defend something they feel is defending. Most people, when it comes to their movies, take anything said in a deflamatory without any critical reason for such disregard a personal attack. If anything, I just try to encourage less of a close-minded one way arguement and more of a critical openess where the other person can defend their movie.

It's something I learned in posting my feelings about Terrence Malick movies.

So, I don't get the pigeonhole you're trying to put me in.

Sorry for that. That's usually what happens among savages who savage.

I feel the same about 21 Grams, if it makes you feel better.

Somewhat, but to me, Batman is more sacred ground than some director who got lucky off of one foriegn film. Cheers, mate, and we'll just agree to disagree. You disliked Batman so much, I had it as the third best film of 2005 behind King Kong and Munich.

[Reza]

Let me just say I'm amazed by the amount of mileage this topic has received.

Let's hope it's worth all the angst.

It appears to be a time filler between awards' seasons!

[Big Magilla]

Let me just say I'm amazed by the amount of mileage this topic has received.

Let's hope it's worth all the angst.

[Mister Tee]

Let me just say I'm amazed by the amount of mileage this topic has received.

[FilmFan720]

I'll chime in with my disgust of Batman Begins, and also that I could see Brandon Routh as a VERY OUTSIDE contender for Best Actor. It all depends on how the film is recieved.

Plus, I thought Cillian Murphy was the one who got most of the positive reviews for Batman Begins. Maybe that was just that I thought him the best part of the film.

Tripp

[Penelope]

Well, Sonic, I thought Batman Begins was pretty much dogshit, too--one of the worst directed, photographed and edited movies of the past year. Christian Bale was the best thing about it.

But, then, aside from Pfeiffer in Batman Returns, I've thought ALL of the Batman movies have pretty much sucked.

[Big Magilla]

I'm surprised no one suggested a supporting actor nomination for Marlon Brando. The footage he filmed for Superman II that was never used will be seen for the first time so I suppose that technically makes hims eligible.

Seriously though, the only way I see Superman Returns competing in any of the top six categories is for the film to do Titanic style box office and be seen as the new savior of "the business". Otherwise it may prove to be the best loved film of the year but will be judged too artistically lightweight.

I've seen Routh in promos for a TV special airing tonight in which he takes viewers back to the bowling alley where he tended bar waiting for his big break. His golly gee whizms, look at me, just a boy from Iowa, ain't gonna help win him an Oscar nomination any time soon. As they would say at Gold Derby, they only give Oscars to good looking dumb broads, not guys.

In the meantime I've got a pass to see the film so barring any last minute commitments I'll be there on opening day.

[Sonic Youth]

Sonic, you're treating this like a criddic3 debate with scores and scores of quoted documentation to support what, in the end, is a pretty insignificant argument.

I think I was the last one to jump in and provide "quoted documentation" after half a dozen other posters did. But thanks.

[Sonic Youth]

I'll avoid most of OGs post because it's teetering dangerously into flame-war territory, which I don't want to have happen, other than to say I disagree with the characterization of me. But as to your question:

Lawrence Olivier for Othello. Kenneth Branagh for Henry V. Bette Davis in The Letter. Rex Harrison for My Fair Lady. Albert Finney for Murder on the Orient Express. Robert DeNiro in Cape Fear. Antony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs. Winona Ryder in Little Women. Judi Dench and Cate Blanchett in Queen Elizabeth. Gerard Depardieu in Cyrano de Bergerac. Leonardo DiCaprio for The Aviator.

Do performances playing other well-known actors count, like Cate Blanchett as Katherine Hepburn or Robert Downey, Jr as Charlie Chaplin?

I know, not all of them are app. within their lifetimes, but I don't see the relevance of that. Brandon Routh wasn't even born when Chris Reeve made Superman. And surely Winona Ryder has seen Hepburn's Little Women within her lifetime. It's not like the film or Hepburn's reputation distintegrated over time.

EDIT: I guess I have to omit a few of these, since some predecessors were nommed. Square peg in round hole, I say. A tiny detail to withhold a nomination from.

[flipp525]

Move on, y'all. There are much more interesting things to discuss than on what level or to what degree someone is wrong or right.

OscarGuy, out of left-field predictions are fun at this stage.

Sonic, you're treating this like a criddic3 debate with scores and scores of quoted documentation to support what, in the end, is a pretty insignificant argument.

What it all adds up to is a waste of time and space in what should be one of the more interesting threads on this board right now.

[dws1982]

Thanks Oscar Guy, but I don't need to be told what the debate was about. I can read.

Most of us chiming in examples were doing so because it's fun to catch other people getting nominees and winners wrong.

What's fun about presenting oneself as a pompous know-it-all? I don't see much "fun" in correcting someone on something as trivial as an Oscar nomination. I'm sure I've corrected people in the past when they got their Oscar nominees wrong, but I don't think it's "fun" to do so.

On the refutation of Sonic's refutation of Hollywood Z's refutation

What the hell?

[OscarGuy]

Look, Sonic...you're the one blowing this out of proportion and dws, you mis-characterize the debate. The debate started out as a mild refutation of Sonic's suggestion that Brouth was a left-field contender for Best Actor. Sonic turned it into a blown-out-of-proportion slugfest. Most of us chiming in examples were doing so because it's fun to catch other people getting nominees and winners wrong. That's all I was saying. Sonic's heavy defense of his own suggestion proves that it's more than just a way-out suggestion from him and he takes it far more seriously than he probably should.

On the refutation of Sonic's refutation of Hollywood Z's refutation:

Bale almost certainly got more positive notices than the rest of the cast. There were a significant number of people who felt that Ms. Cruise was weak and the rest of the cast serviceable. With Superman Returns, there won't be way-out-there praise of Routh when compared to how much press Kevin Spacey will get for playing Lex Luther. In my circle of friends, who are populist and anti-artistic seemingly, there's virtually no discussion of Routh. Most people are talking about Spacey. So, if anyone has a left-field potential its Spacey and not necessarily for great performances (Beyond the Sea was pure hgh ego for me) but possibly even for the Razzies. I think Routh will get some attention but much of it will be compared against Christopher Reeve and his ability to stand above or fall below expectations of Reeve's Superman and when you compare, you diminish that.

Here's the best comparison. Can anyone name actors or actresses who have done roles made famous by other people (during approximately the same time of their lives) who have not only surpassed their predecessors but received nominations when their predecessor did not. There is your best Oscar comparison to Routh.

[Sonic Youth]

First off, your claim about the validity of Batman Begins is merely one person's opinion amoung a majority of people who saw, loved, and respected the movie.

Well, it won't be the first time the majority of people failed to see what I saw. But that aside, did you not notice that little throwaway comment in the parenthesis suggesting that my opinion shouldn't be taken so seriously in the context of this discussion? Guess not.

Second, there was a very clear singling out of Christian Bale from the cast. Everybody was making it clear that his performance gave the most accurate depiction of the comic book version of Batman.

I dispute that. Sure, Bale recieved fine notices and all, but in a cast of heavy duty veterans, I didn't see him being consistently singled out head-and-shoulder above the rest. It was such a large cast, critics made time to praise everybody worth praising. This does NOT seem to be the case with Routh, who is getting more ink spilled for his performance than anyone else.

So, please, tread softly on movies that people seem to enjoy.

But why should I be the only one on this board - or any board, for that matter - to do that?

No thanks. I'll savage any movie I deem worth savaging with no regard to how many other people enjoy it. Just like you do, right? And everyone else?

We can't all be nihilistic anti-hero "realistic" pictures. Some really good ones are actually big budget movies that succeeded in bringing about an interesting plot amoung studio driven films.

Absolutely. I loved Spiderman. I very much enjoyed the latest Harry Potter film. I have great respect for the Lord of the Rings franchise. I even kind of liked the final Star Wars installment. And I'll take Stephen Chow's wild chop-sockies over the insufferable House of Flying Daggers any day.

And I enjoy the first Tim Burton Batman, too.

And I'm looking forward to this movie, too. So, I don't get the pigeonhole you're trying to put me in. All because I think Batman Begins is one of the ten worst movies I've seen in the last five years? It's just one movie. I feel the same about 21 Grams, if it makes you feel better.

[dws1982]

I think the reaction to Sonic's statement has way over-the-top. (As in, the type of hysteria about nothing you'd see at Goldderby.) It's not like he said Brandon Routh was a lock to win Best Actor. He just mentioned a far-out possibility.

[Hollywood Z]

First off, your claim about the validity of Batman Begins is merely one person's opinion amoung a majority of people who saw, loved, and respected the movie. Personally, I feel that the Academy controls the nominations so they can control who is going to win. If Batman Begins had been a contender in the sound catagories, King King wouldn't have had a double punch in them. Cinematography was a way of saying they wanted to recognize the film in a prestigious manner, but not give it anything too presigious.

Second, there was a very clear singling out of Christian Bale from the cast. Everybody was making it clear that his performance gave the most accurate depiction of the comic book version of Batman. Before this movie, Bale was only a relatively known actor with his most famous movies being Newsies, Empire of the Sun and American Psycho. After Batman Begins, the man will now be taken more seriously for leading roles.

And if we want to bring personal opinion into play, Batman Begins was head above heels better than most of the other arrogant award-bait drivel that came out last year. So, please, tread softly on movies that people seem to enjoy. We can't all be nihilistic anti-hero "realistic" pictures. Some really good ones are actually big budget movies that succeeded in bringing about an interesting plot amoung studio driven films.